Podcasting Is Bigger Than Advertising: A Creator's Perspective on Data, Trust, and Community

Podcasting is bigger than advertising.

It’s creators, producers, and editors. It’s listeners, viewers, and fans. It’s community. It’s discoverability. It’s independent podcasts, the developers who build this ecosystem alongside creators, and the dedicated people who show up week after week.

It includes millions of people making podcasts who may never run a single ad. And believe me—that is the vast majority of podcasters out there.

The Missing Voice in Industry Standards

Recently, on In and Around Podcasting, Rob and I talked through the new AMP Accords. The document sets out to solve real, legitimate technical problems—better measurement, clearer attribution, and buyer confidence. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. Whether we like it or not, the advertising side of the industry helps keep the broader economic foundation standing.

But as I read through the text, I couldn't help reading it through a creator's lens. That’s who I am. That’s where my heart, my knowledge, and my 20 years of experience reside.

And, one question kept returning to me: Who is this really for?

The AMP Accords focuses heavily on buyers, sellers, platforms, metrics, and ad budgets. When the document mentions "community," it refers to the "advertiser community" or "moderation communities." When it references the people making the shows, it uses the word "talent."

To me, that framing creates distance.

Contrast that with the IAB Podcast Technical Measurement Guidelines, which explicitly state that they "collaborate with the podcasting community." When I read those words, I immediately think: Oh, I am part of this. We are part of this. The community is recognized as an active participant in establishing the standards that govern our shared space.

If we are discussing the future of podcasting, ad dollars cannot be our only compass for measuring progress.

Advertising Fueled Our Pioneers

Let me be super clear: advertising is not the bad guy.

I have sat with this deeply, and I have so much respect for the long-time independent podcasters who built sustainable, full-time businesses from the ground up through advertising. Not creators backed by massive media conglomerates or corporate venture capital, but independent creators who earned their livelihoods ad spot by ad spot. Advertising was hugely empowering for them—it gave them the freedom to make podcasting their life’s work.

And as ad revenues naturally fluctuated over the years, many of those same creators smartly expanded into memberships, direct fan support, courses, and live events. Advertising was their launchpad that helped them diversify their income streams.

The tension isn't about whether advertising is good or bad. It’s about how far we push tracking and data mining in service of ad tech. We have to ask ourselves: in our quest to dig deeper into measurement and attribution, are we risking the erosion of the very trust, privacy, and open connection that made advertising work so well in podcasting in the first place?

I don’t know. I really don’t.

What Actually Makes Podcasting Go

Progress is not just about shifting our currency from downloads to plays.

• Progress is how easily audiences can discover incredible, niche, independent podcasts—whether they choose to listen or watch.
• Progress is protecting audience privacy while keeping the ecosystem open.
• Progress is supporting creators who build sustainable businesses through balanced income streams and robust ecosystems—memberships, tips, sponsorships, premium experiences, etc.
• Progress is keeping this space wide open so the next generation can build something weird, independent, and wonderful.

That is the podcasting I stepped into two decades ago. At the end of July 2006, I published the very first episode of Elsie's Yoga Class. Back then, podcasting grew from independent minds—rebellious types who wanted to share media directly with people without gatekeepers standing in the doorway.

The early podcast apps didn't come from venture capitalists trying to monetize listener and viewer data. They came from developers asking a simple question: "How do we make it easier for people to consume what they love?" Their work was built around serving audiences. Independent developers created tools out of passion, and users paid for better user experiences.

Today, we are asking those same independent developers to pivot their core values toward tracking and selling data. Many of them choose to remain in financially modest environments simply to preserve their principles and keep their tools audience-first. That choice has profound value.

Respecting the Foundation While Building the Future

None of this means we should diminish the existing tools we have. The download metric may not be perfect, but right now, it is the primary bridge connecting creators, platforms, and sponsors. Diminishing our metrics before we have equitable, agreed-upon alternatives might just hurt the creators who rely on this system to survive.

It’s like repairing the foundation of a house: you have to understand how every beam fits together before you start removing the structures keeping the roof over your head.

Advertising funds a large portion of our commercial infrastructure and fuels great independent shows. But advertising alone is not what makes podcasting go. People make podcasting go.

Moving Forward Together: Questions We Must Answer

When we talk about moving podcasting forward, we have to stop conflating "the industry" with "the community."

Lately, "the industry" has come to speak primarily for big corporate money, ad networks, and enterprise platforms—and initiatives like the AMP Accords are designed specifically to solve those corporate buyer problems. Meanwhile, "the community" is made up of independent creators, producers, editors, listeners, viewers, developers, and many more cool folks who care about trust, connection, and creative freedom.

What moves corporate ad tech forward isn't automatically what moves independent creators forward. To make genuine progress, we need to ask two very different sets of questions depending on who is sitting at the table.

Questions for Independent Creators

You do not have to default to ad-industry templates that weren't designed for your goals. Ask yourself:

• What type of media business do I actually want to build?
• What kind of life do I want this podcast to support?
• Which income streams make sense for my show? (Direct fan support, tipping, memberships, courses, live events, traditional sponsors, etc.?)
• How can advertising serve my business without compromising my audience’s trust or privacy?
• Is protecting my audience's data a core value for my brand?
• When is having more data and information an asset, and when does it become a liability? (This is something I teach creators all the time: there is no single right answer, but it is a question every single one of us needs to sit with and answer for ourselves.)
• How much data is actually enough data? Where do I draw the line?

Questions for Industry Leaders & Standards Bodies

For the advertisers, platforms, and committees shaping technical standards, here is what I hope we keep at the center of the conversation:

• Can we make choice and consent the default? This is my most personal ask: make everything opt-in. Data tracking and commercial aggregation should never be the assumed default for independent shows, listeners, or viewers. Give creators and audiences clear, deliberate choice.
• What are the realistic timelines? To get platforms and hosting companies to commit dev time, what are the clear, doable timelines for 2027 that demonstrate a tangible benefit for their investment?
• How are you protecting the non-ad majority? How do we ensure ad-centric technical requirements don't create unnecessary friction, technical burdens, or costs for the majority of podcasters who don't make money from advertising?

What do you think moves podcasting forward? Where do you draw the line on data and tracking?

I believe in getting really good at asking better questions, and giving ourselves the space to answer them—not to dictate rules for everyone, but to be clear on what matters to us.

Listen to our full discussion about this and a whole lot more on the latest episode of In and Around Podcasting!

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